Age-Play, Group Think and Taking A Stand

Well now that the comments and emails have slowed to a trickle. Here is the conversation between Cinderelli and Sara, my comment is at the end.

Sara — It is my belief that being non-judgemental and having no judgement is not quite the same thing. “Tolerance within the scene” is one thing. A blanket “your kink is ok” I have to question.

On the one hand, being open to personal differences is a good thing. So many people in this world are prejudiced against others who are different, whom they don’t relate to or understand, and naturally that is not a good thing. On the other hand, to flat out decide that any kink is ok, is not necessarily a good thing either. I have been on forums where women are clearly being abused, mentally and physically. Very few will step up and say “Hey…are you ok with this? That sounds really harmful to me!”

Have we created an environment where we turn the other way and, at times, accept things that should not be accepted? There is a slave who writes on her blog about being instructed to mutilate herself. Some slaves sisters were silent, while others cheered her on…encouraging her to harm herself in the name of being a better slave. Later, with angst, having resisted her orders, she questions if she had lost her mind.

My question is not what was wrong with her, but what is wrong with us? Why do we read, listen, encourage others to accept harm and degradation? Perhaps it is like those people who crowd and watch the jumper on the window ledge. Why? Because it is fascinating and they cannot look away? Then some will actually call out, encouraging him to jump. What does that say about us as a community if we have no boundaries, are unwilling to draw lines or call ANY activity out of bounds? I for one am not just going to go get a cookie if someone is being hurt, abused, or used. If it seems like what is happening is not consensual, if the judgement seems impaired, or if there is a child involved. But people do that. Who did not see those Acorn tapes with a pimp and an underage prostitute trying to get a mortage. No one called 911, grabbed the teen girl, made a report, said one word. This was not in one Acorn office but many. Who have we become?

I have a hard time saying categorically that age play is wrong, although it is just …’icky’ to me. But again, as you move from age play to pay sites online, to pay sites that feature adults who look like 14 yr old girls, to child porn to the stats that link child porn to sexual predators, it gets harder to simply say it is all safe and OK. Is it?

If a man should vote to support laws in his 3rd world country so that women continue to not be allowed to be educated, own land, decide their marriage partner, is that the same as literally physically abusing a woman? No. Does it support and perpetuate an environment where the facts show that abuse of women flourishes and women have little protection or recourse? Yes.

That’s all I am saying. A does not exactly or necessarily = B, but it does at least sometimes lead us on to Z. How to we keep ourselves and others safe? How do we protect those who need protection? Where do we draw lines and when is it right to say no?

Cinderelli – Sara- Of course if someone is in an abusive relationship, we as a community should step up and do something. In the groups i am a part of, if we see something that seems off, we don’t just ignore, nor encourage it. Someone that the parties involved trust and respect speaks with them, individually, and makes sure everything is indeed ok. We are there for one another. When i say i am tolerant of people, i do not mean people who are doing things that are morally or ethically wrong. Abuse is wrong, commending that someone mutilate themselves to be a better slave is wrong, having sex with a child is wrong. But, ageplay, come on. i am a consenting adult, and trust me i don’t look anything like a 14 year old girl. i like being cosseted and protected like the eight year old i often feel like though. Is that wrong? And i think it is a huge leap to go from ageplay, to pay sites, to child porn, to sexual predators. Just because a couple enjoys ageplay, does not make them sick, twisted people who are going to go out and molest children. None of the people who i know that are into ageplay would ever hurt a child. Many of them have children. And to make that leap, well that assumes a lot.

Sara – “Just because a couple enjoys ageplay, does not make them sick, twisted people who are going to go out and molest children.”

Cindarelli, as that is not at what I said, or what I meant. There are people I like and respect who engage as well..although your term covers a whole lot. Of course consenting adults can and should do what pleases them. However, I think it is important to think these things through, to question where lines need to be drawn. You do not look like an 8 yr old in your dress up but it helps you feel like one and that is satisfying for you. OK. There is/was a gal on the Internet who has a free blog and pay site. She LOOKS like a 15 yr old but says she is 22-ish. What she sells is sexual spanking depicted between adult men and a little girl. Is there a difference? Should she do this? If a pedophile is enticed by her videos, what do we do with that?

Me — Protecting children is the number one priority. We do agree more than we disagree. I think I am falling more towards identifying the nuance and stating plainly age-play that is in fact focused on child-like behavior or childish body types is probably heading down a road to unacceptable. And yes, there is definitely a danger in casting too wide a net that covers a multitude of ’sins’ when that is not appropriate either We risk diluting the attention focused on the real issue, abuse of children. Brittany Spears   got rich exploiting this particular fantasy.

When we move away from clearly adult players towards ambiguity surrounding the ages of the players and when there is an attempt to push the envelop with real children or adults who appear childlike or even with children. One after another on-line groups are shut down when pics are posted that include children and we choose to look away because “that is their kink and they are consenting adults”. There are entire sites dedicated to spanking stories where the characters are children. The stories include all of Mr LDD’s favorite coins of the realm including naked corner time and exposed sex organs to the spanker, other family members, friends and strangers.

We recognize that most children are abused by someone they know, we also recognize the pervasiveness of pornography on the internet. Yet we continue to insist that ‘we’ don’t know anyone who would do anything unspeakable. The bottom line is ‘we’ don’t know anything. We don’t know each other, we don’t know our readers, we don’t know every person looking at all the pics on the internet, we only know what the facts tell us:

“Child Molestation and Sexual Abuse victims are growing every year. Most probably it is increasing due to easy access to pornography (pornographic material) on internet.

According to Charles Keating of Citizens for Decency Through Law, research reveals that 77% of child molesters of boys and 87% of child molesters of girls admitted imitating the sexual behavior they had seen in pornography they had watched.

FBI have shown that pornography is extremely influential in the actions of sex offenders and serial murders. Statistics show that 90% of the predators who molest children have had some type of involvement with pornography.”

http://childneglect-abuse.blogspot.com/2009/09/child-molestation-and-sexual-abuse.html

One thing can lead to another, and I think sometimes drawing clear boundaries is really important! I am not saying that all who are into age play would molest a child. However, the facts are that some do, and that we create an environment that sets a tone, maybe a place, for that to happen more easily than not.

We can only make individual decisions about how we will respond with the information we have at hand.

Yes, it is different for an adult who wants to pretend to be a child and interact on that level when the participants are clearly adult. However, there are people are using the broadest definitions possible to cover their own fetish and predilections. Those are the people we should be wary of and vigilantly stand against.

There is nothing about me or this lifestyle that is more valuable to me than the safety and welfare of children. I refuse to turn a blind eye and pretend risk is non-existant when we know it is very real. I would walk away from the entire thing and not look back if I thought anything I did provided any solace, comfort or shield to anyone who would hurt a child.

Now, how this position morphs into an indictment of kinksters everywhere I am not sure. There is this idea that kinky folk must have a sense of solidarity and unity because they are kinky. Your kink is simply what you do. I am well within my rights, yes in my obligation to myself to set a standard that does not waver because someone else’s kink falls on the other side of the line. Did you read “The Cool Kids”? I don’t think I could possibly have been any clearer. Blanket endorsements of every aspect of this lifestyle should not be expected or required.

In my book, everything isn’t cool and somethings are criminal.

Shaved Adults Con’t – Poppy Speaks

And the beat goes on,,

The conversation regarding removing hair around the genital area and age-play continues. As promised I have pulled Poppy’s comment and made it into it’s own post complete with my responses. Let’s continue the dialog,

Poppy – I understand what you say. I would just like to raise the thought that there are many people who see being spanked as “age play” as they see spanking as a childhood punishment.  Is it OK if I say that with absolute respect and gratitude for a thought provoking and well written post I disagree with some of what you have written?

CD – By all means, please disagree. It helps keep me mentally adept to actually defend a position I have taken. Thank you for taking the time to write. There probably are some people who see spanking as a childhood punishment. I am not one of them. Spanking, discipline, impact play, pain and pleasure are all key components of ttwd in it’s various forms. There are many people under the ttwd umbrella who do not use spanking or discipline within their dynamic, they have other tools in their toolbox that they use for their pleasure, to communicate their feelings, needs and desires. For those of us that do, and I cannot speak to all of them, but as for myself I do not see spanking as a childhood punishment.

As a person who experienced corporal punishment during childhood, I assure there is no relationship between my childhood experiences and my adult experiences. My childhood experiences were not consensual, were strictly punishment to address some misbehavior on my part and to ensure future compliance. As an adult spankings are, quite frankly, often sexual; consensual, intended to deepen an emotional connection and to strenthen a relationship. Nudity is a component of my adult experiences whereas it was never a component of my childhood experiences.

I am aware that there are those who disagree with punishment spankings of any sort, however they will indulge in erotic or play spankings. There are those who insist on equity and use some sort of Spencer Plan and there are those who do not spank at all. Among vanilla people that I know or have heard commenting on ttwd, they see it as an erotic indulgence. Whenever I have heard of spanking being referred to as childish it is within the confines of ttwd. Most often, when discussed by those who disagree with it’s use it is discussed as an equity and fairness issue.   

Poppy – I do not want to pick through all the parts of this so I will try to do an over view. I have done a lot of work with children who are victims of abuse (sexual, emotional and other kinds). It is grim and wearing work but I consider it an honour. It is very, very hard to do and sometimes it leaves me drained and broken. (As a side note only once in over twelve years have I worked with a child victim of sexual abuse who did not know her abuser, he was the guy from the Internet. Every single other time it has been a relative or family friend. I find this horrific to contemplate.)

I have struggled for a long time to reconcile my absolute belief in the vital action of protecting children and my lifestyle which involves spanking. I use pictures on my site, some of which are women in school girl outfits. I vet these with care to make sure the girl looks clearly, clearly adult. But I can see how for you that may be (forgive me if I misread that) indicative or encouraging the future abuse of children.

CD – Child-sexual abuse is a terrible thing. Here in my area we seem to have an ample supply of abusers that come from a number of sources. Family members, acquiantances, trusted authority figures and all too often from the internet. Our law enforcement agencies work day and night combating internet predators. The television program I mentioned, ‘To Catch A Predator’ is a long running news program now completely dedicated to finding and arresting men who pursue sex with minors via the internet.

My sexuality as an adult and the indulgence in spanking does not automatically equate to sex with minors in my opinion. They are simply two different activities with two different goals and motivations. As for school-girl outfits, they are not my favorite but I am well able to differentiate between an adult woman in a school girl outfit and a child. The ones that are disturbing and that give me pause are the pics of purportedly adult women who are sized to look like under-aged girls.

In this case, the model or provider of the pic is skirting the laws of decency, morality and the legal justice system by providing an image that appears to be one thing, an under-aged girl, while it is actually some thing else, a person over the age of 18. That is what is problematic.

Poppy – I get spanked, often OTK. There are many, many people who would see this as age play. I understand why you believe age play feeds into dangerous behaviours. I respect your right to say it.

CD – You are in an adult consensual relationship that involves punishment and discipline often using otk spanking in a disciplinary manner. In my opinion, this is not age play.

Poppy – I am just feeling rubbish now and it will take me some time to feel OK again. If this comes across as in anyway disrespectful then please just delete it. I do think this is a valid debate to have. I think we must act firmly and postively to protect every child in our society.

CD – I am sorry you are feeling like rubbish. I did take the time to re-read my post and I do not see anything that I said that indicates I feel spanking equates to age-play equates to morally bankrupt and suspect. Age-play, the presentation of adult women in childish settings exhibiting immature behavior does not a consensual adult spanking relationship make. I have included the following definitions of age-play and adult spanking. Age-play specifically references someone pretending to be younger than they are, whereas adult spanking actually notes the more common connection to abuse and not age-play.

Ageplay or age play is a form of erotic roleplaying in which an individual acts or treats another as if they were a different age. Generally this can involve someone pretending to be younger than they actually are, but more rarely can involve assuming an older role. Variations include incest play, in which individuals recreate and sexualize roles wthin a family, and Daddy’s girl fetishism in which real or imagined age differences are the basis of the roleplaying and the female is portrayed as the younger partner.

Adult spanking differs from traditional parent-child spanking in that the act is between two consenting adults. Adults engage in the activity for several different reasons. The most common is simply playful spanking amongst people engaging in other intimate activities. People who require spanking to be a part of their sexual play are considered spanking fetishists. There are two groups of people whose use of spanking is discipline related. The first group incorporates spanking as part of their overall belief system in how a husband and wife should interrelate. The second group considers spanking to be an essential component of their recovery and/or development.[

In some cultures, the spanking of women, by the male head of the family or by the husband (sometimes called domestic discipline) has been and sometimes continues to be a common and approved custom. In most western countries, this practice has come to be regarded as unlawful and socially unacceptable wife-beating, domestic violence or abuse. Routine corporal punishment of women by their husbands, however, does still exist in some parts of the third world, and still occurs in isolated cases in western countries.

Poppy – I think it is important to say this in case there is someone else out there feeling like me.

CD – I am sorry that something I said made you feel badly as that was not my intention. This is a blog written by a woman who is a committed spanko. I in no way shape or form equate spanking with the sexual abuse of children. It was my intention to draw attention to the reality of child sexual abuse and the steps taken by predators to fulfill their illegal and dangerous desires.

Shaved Adults Do Not Children Make,,,

The conversation Florida Dom started a few days back has taken on a life of it’s own. Ally has a great post here along with several insightful comments.

http://allystepsforward.wordpress.com/2009/10/26/my-take-on-shaving-sort-of/#comments

I plucked my comment out and am turning it into a post. Hopefully, the more we say it the more people will here it and understand the dangers we are highlighting.  And one more aside to my comment. Just because someone makes money doing something does not make it ok, it makes it profitable. Lot’s of people have turned run-of-the-mill kink and several not so run-of-the-mill-kinks into profit centers. Good for you. I have a lovely bottom and could easily make money selling pics of it getting slapped on-line. If I wanted to dress it up as the Lippy-Housewife or create persona of the Evil-Boss-Lady-Bitch who get’s taken down a peg with spanking and lashing, I know I could make a mint. But those are adults and that is adult behavior. Pretending like I am a child on-line or worse, an infant and fostering that kink is not simply perverse, it is dangerous. Just because you can legally sell it does not make it ok, nor does it alleviate the danger. My favorite comment after they arrest the killer or molester, “I would never have expected him to do that. He seemed so normal“. Everyone is normal, until they aren’t.

My comment to Ally:

This conversation started a few days ago as a discussion on shaving. Yes shaving can be hygienic and any number of other things unrelated to age-play. Age-play is a stand-alone topic and a cause for concern. That someone actively indulges in it is no reason to turn a blind eye to the potential ramifications and dangers from such activity.

I have seen many age-play clips and read age-play fiction. One comment that recurs is criticism of the age of the model. If the clip promises young women and the woman is more, ahem, mature, the viewers are hyper-critical of that situation. The fiction includes extensive time devoted to describing nude teenagers and young-girls being ‘punished’ for any number of infractions. However, their nudity is both public and the described poses almost always include displays of their genitalia. As a person received corporal punishment growing up, I speak from experience, it was never in the nude and included no public displays ever.

It is one thing for a couple to call each other Mommy and Daddy. That seems to happen a lot with older couples, particular in smaller towns and in large families. It is another for a man to desire sexual contact with a child and use an adult as a proxy. With all due respect to those who indulge in this fantasy, you are not in any way shape or form passing as a child unless you are thin and under-developed. There are some thin underdeveloped women making a mint allowing all comers to spank them or engage in other sexual acts. But most of these women are a proxy in name and within the boundaries of the fantasy that is being created. That is the fantasy, when the gentleman tires of the fantasy is when we are faced with a dangerous situation. Will he seek to advance his fantasy with an actual child or will he repress his desires? All too often these fantasies are enacted by men with children.

Fantasizing, forming the thought, removing the stigma, meeting a child, justifying the behavior, acting upon it. It really isn’t that far-fetched an idea at all. I recall a study by the CDC in Atlanta on teen-pregnancy. It showed the vast majority of teenagers who became pregnant before their 18th birthdays were impregnated by adults at least 10 years older than the girls themselves.

What has “To Catch A Predator” on Dateline NBC taught us? There are hundreds of men on computers around the country engaging in sex talk with young teens and children. I live in a major city, everyday it seems there is a story of some person traveling miles to meet a young person for sexual contact. It is horrifying. There are tours dedicated to sex with children, there are web-sites, there are religions that try to justify it as scriptural. The internet has exacerbated this behavior. It is not to be poopoo’ed or dismissed. This is not about power dynamics and control, this is about sexual attraction to children or child-like behavior and physiques.

Let’s be plain. Children don’t have stretch-marks. Their vagina’s have not been stretched to allow babies to exit. Their skin does not sag unattractively nor shows the ripples and ravages of time. They are fresh, smooth and tight. Their bottoms are perky and springy, not square and saggy. Grown women do not look like children and teenagers. They ask questions and have requirements of the men who seek sexual contact with them. Children can be used sexually and discarded. They are naive and immature, emotionally simple. These ‘men’ don’t have to be men when they are using children.

Age-play, peeing on oneself, adult-baby, in my opinion in silly in most cases, frequently disturbing and down-right nasty at times. I do not find playing with waste material fun on any level. There is nothing sexy about having my diaper changed. I’ve seen real babies, adult women simpering around in diapers pretending to be toddlers and young children are not babies. They are fantasy creatures devoid of the real requirements of babies. Instead of taking care of these children and babies like normal adults with an eye to their protection and development, those who buy this material can sit their with their hands on their crotch, the real center of their interest.

Like the organ-grinders monkey, the goat and the sheep. Uh, no.

First Time Encounters,,,

I’m in a mood, sorry. Not all pissy and righteously indignant, no, just tired of the repetitive death march that seems to be my life these days. I am trying to be mature, I know it will all come to an end soon enough but I have been juggling this particular set of balls for years. I am tired. I am incapable of acting like everything is going to be okay when everything is so awful now. Nope, no happy face. Sorry, I can’t say I will try harder, I am all out of try harder right now. The best I can say is this too will eventually pass. 

That being said I have a blog and should post something right? So here goes, a gentleman I know met a woman, as we spankos are known to do, on-line. Below is his description of their first meeting. This is reprinted with his permission and will be followed by additional posts of our back and forth discussion. It is an interesting take on a first encounter from the male perspective and this was originally posted on OTKDD2. So girls, what do you think? Are we often well behaved on our first encourters and go home unspanked? Do we give in to that darned urge to get OTK asap? Do we meet less respectable men and get our arms twisted into unwanted play? Do tell.

Also, a spanking pal of mine will be in town this week and I am invited out for dinner to one of my favorite places. Yes, you know the truth, my behind can be yours for the right culinary experience. Disgraceful I know, but I am a fool for fine Italian. I’ll let you know how it all pans out. Oh yeah, he is traveling for business and left all his ‘toys’ at home. Wanted to know if I had anything I would like to put in my purse just in case.

Heh, your hand dude, your hand.

M’s date in his own words: 

We ended up doing things right, and meeting with no play before going on to play another day. Acually I don’t think either of us planned it that way, it’s just after we got done with the lovely Thai dinner I took her out to, she was so out of it from jet lag it seemed like she was drunk. I hugged her goodnight at her hotel and we said bye for now.

The following Tuesday I took her for kosher deli, and we went back to her room and played for about 90 minutes. It was fun, and great to be out in circulation again, great to play again, but this was clearly not a love match. Nonetheless it was great to heat up the ol’ spanking hand again, been way too long

I now feel a renewed sense of confidence and am ready to commence looking again. I learned a long time ago that to go out looking for love is a great way to get hurt. Looking to give spankings is a great place to start, and who knows what might be out there for me if I leave myself open to it.

More to come,,,

When Submissives Attack or They Met on CollarMe

I can’t stop laughing,,,,

 

Update from the Dr’s and Tipsy Baking

Two trips to the Dr’s, two days in a row. The first shot and new prescription seemed to overdo something. I felt awful. The pain meds were useless so I went back and got better ones.

The good news is our blood counts are up .5 points. We are still a ways away from where we want to be but we are moving in the right direction.

The iron has been tripled and the multivitamin supplemented with vitamin C so we all expect to stay on schedule and keep the surgery appt scheduled for Thanksgiving week.

The Dr’s thank you for your collective interest in donating blood to my cause but want to assure you (and me) they are not being mean when they decline to transfuse me. I simply am not strong enough to get through the surgery without my personal counts rising. Putting blood in when it is rushing back out defeats the purpose. My counts must rise or even with fresh blood I will not be self-sustaining during the procedure.

They were curious if I had told my friends that they were not giving me blood ‘just because’. My Dr’s are hyper-sensitive. Or it could be that I am the worst patient ever to walk the face of the earth.

I did apologize for being difficult and surly. The Dr’s indicated they understood. I am tired and I don’t feel well. It is pretty much a given that I would also be a little testy, or a lot testy, irritable, prickly, snappish.

Heck, I am tired of myself,,,

****************************************************

One day soon I will post about being depressed but not today. Today I will post about one of the things I do to preoccupy myself when I am feeling down. I bake. I used to bake all the time back when I was married but something happened,,,,read the rest of the post, I will get to it.

For the last month or so, every other weekend or so I have been driving out to my girlfriends and we cook and bake away a weekend. She has some things in her life that are making her uneasy, I have my issues — so we plan menus and just go for it.

Now my friend, we shall call Little D on account that her fiance is Big D, is a phenomenal cook as is Big D. So any trip out to their places is laden with culinary delight. At any rate, I packed most all of my kitchen gear except my mixer, it is just to cumbersome to get in a box. When Little D came up with the idea of coking/baking away a weekend I immediately agreed and decided to take the mixer and leave it at her house.

The problem is, when I am depressed, and I am very depressed right now, it is hard for me to actually do anything. I may want to do things, I may need to do things but I won’t actually do them.  It took three dates before I actually showed up at her house. Now Little D has known me since HS, nothing I do bothers her, she has seen it all before. But she pushes me to do things sometimes because it is for my own good. Thus the scheduled and rescheduled dates.

The first weekend I made it we decided to make Lemon Pound cake, Red Velvet cake, smothered chicken, fried catfish, smothered potatoes, corn on the cob, seven-layer salad biscuits. Two other girls dropped by so we had split the work up pretty well and things were moving along. The thing is, Little D also made a HUGE container of sangria.  It’s not that I don’t drink. I don’t have an issue with alcohol. I just don’t drink often, like twice a year, maybe.  So I drank sangria and baked while the girls handled the rest of the menu. The pound cake was divine. It was done first while I was still kinda sober.

The Red Velvet? not so much. the flavor measures were all off Tablespoons became teaspoons and that kinda mess. Ai yi yi,,,,,it was so pretty and the icing was great. The cake tasted like mud. The biscuits were great.

Weekend two, Almond pound cake, (I can’t find my Sour Cream pound cake recipe, must’ve packed it so if any one has a good one I would be eternally grateful), Meow’s Chocolate Cake, Red Velvet again (we learned nothing) and chocolate chip cookies.  Along with skirt steak, roasted chicken, okra and tomatoes,  rice, sauteed spinach and mixed greens with homemade buttermilk dressing.

Sometimes I don’t eat much during the day, then I eat when I get hungry at night. Well, I hadn’t eaten anything when I arrived at her house around 3p. We started with white wine. One glass, I have sparkly-light brain, two glasses, I am plain old tipsy. I made the pound cake first. Again, knocked it out of the park. I got the wrong thing for Meow’s cake so I had to postpone that one. But I whipped up the cookies for her daughter to take to school that week and then we started the Red Velvet. We were feeling kinda confident but then again we had polished off two bottles by then. Ah the folly of it all.

We were so excited when the cake went into the over and proud to, right up until she picked up the leavening and we realized it was not in the cake. Now this is our second weekend ruining the Red Velvet.

Weekend three. Pumpkin Muffins, Praline Muffins, Pound Cake, Red Velvet Cake (we never learn). Pound Cake is now a staple, Big D expects it when he comes in. Apparently it is so good it reminds him of his mothers. It has aver light texture to it, close to angel food and rich flavors. Plus it is easy, I can just knock it out.  The rest of the menu: buttermilk fried chicken, baked short ribs, greens, crowder peas/black eyed peas mixed with okra, rice and corn bread.

I was determined to get some things done sober. So first we raced through the Praline Muffins and then knocked out Big D’s pound cake so it would be ready for dinner. By the time we moved on to the pumpkin muffins we were also through the Merlot. I was dishing them into the muffin time when she held up the eggs. Ahhhh geez, everything back into the bowl to be remixed.

It was around then that the bright idea of adding butter to make it richer came up. That was her idea. My wine soaked brain could not put it together enough to say no, we can’t just add butter without adding dry ingredients, we will ruin them.  Suffice it to say, the tops were great, the centers were soggy and we wont do that again.

Big D came home and we pretended not to be loopy. He was disappointed that the other times we had baked together we never got around to the Red Velvet Cake since it is one of his favorites. I don’t have a poker face under the best of circumstances – tipsy is not the time to try and get it together. I just stared at the mixer and told him we were so busy chatting we let time slip away but we’d make sure he got one this time.

Between the two of us, we managed to get through the recipe this one final time. It over cooked by about seven minutes but otherwise it was perfect. The big guy loved it, although he did mention the over cooking and we redeemed ourselves.

I know – stop getting tipsy and trying to bake.

Back to the baking married thing. I don’t eat all of this stuff. The cakes and what have you I make I take to my aunt’s and my cousins devour it. Yesterday I stopped by the house for no reason, just a pop call and the youngest son was home.

He wanted to know what I’d made and where was it.

Oh,

Really,

Well nothing, I planned on baking tomorrow so I did not have anything.

But the idea that he wanted it made me so excited. I was thrilled that he not only liked the items that had been dropped off – he wanted more. What is it about someone wanting whatever it is that you do that makes you want to do it more? I have seen dom types do that over and over again. Often it is over silly things like seeing you in more pink when you prefer red. Or giving up swearing,lol. Or talking you into skirts when you used to prefer pants. What is it about pleasing people in general and SO dom types in particular that just curls the toes?

And about baking in the past,,,,,

I used to bake when I was married and then I stopped for a long time. I can’t remember the entire situation but I remember some things. I remember my ex liked plain butter pound cakes, with no flavors at all. I know myfamily and friends like anything that falls out of my hand. However, whatever it is, they love intense, rich flavors, rich icings. In particular my BIL likes Sour Cream Pound Cake with Almond flavoring. He likes the denser texture like I do.

For some reason I was only making one cake a weekend or at a time. I remember my ex complaining that he did not like cake with flavors and why did I insist on putting flavors in the cake. I know that I was making cake for Sunday Dinner with the family. I know I did not do what he asked. I know I did not make every cake with no flavors. I know I stopped making cake period. For a long time.

But I don’t know the details of the story. I don’t know why I did not give him what he wanted. I don’t know why I stopped baking completely. He got it sometimes at first, but I think he wanted it all of the time. I did not give that to him. I am not sure what that says about me, but when I remembered it recently – it made me feel like I was not a nice person.

Why wouldn’t I make him the cake or at least make the cakes the way he wanted? I don’t want to make excuses so I wont tell you what I am thinking. But I wonder, question myself, my integrity, my good wife-ness, no matter what I think his motivations or intentions were; should I have just made the cake like he wanted?

Does it matter what I think/thought about his suggestion, motivations, request? Or just do it?

The Cool Kids

I meant to comment on FD’s post and then Meow’s but then the topic morphed like family discussions do sometimes and I just figured what the heck, post about it.

A while back we held a baby shower for my cousin. Regular guests, church folks, friends from work, mom’s, aunts and what have you were in the great room. Sisters, cousins and close friends  all crammed around the dining room table avoiding playing the games and letting the real ‘guests’ enjoy themselves. Well, as happens when we get together the conversation shifted to men and sex stuff.

Sometimes the sex stuff part of our chats can get really wild but this particular time we stuck to two things, piercing and shaving, of all things. The group around the table ranged in age from mid-twenties to late-thirties. Everyone at the table was up to something. Some sort of ‘grooming’, everything from basic bikini waxes to full out Brazilian. We apparently get them done every way possible as well, from shaving, to plucking, to depilatories,  to waxing. There were lots of reasons but it all came back to one of two reasons — neatness or being a little naughty. It just seemed hipper, more risque to do ’something’, no matter what the ’something’ was. The bare minimum was some bikini grooming. Heck we swim, it is a requirement after that, the girls got creative. It wasn’t driven by their hubbies for the most part. These were decisions they made and he lived with, sometimes played along, the consensus was they were happy going with the flow.

At any rate,the conversation just carried on and on while the shower continued as well. After awhile some of our older aunts decided to make a break for it. They’d had frappe and cake and were ready to go home and relax. They entered the dining room and we were all giving each other the business. My aunts can be quite plain-spoken and they wanted to know what the huddle was all about. We girls were feeling kinda naughty and there is foolish strength in numbers so we told them, thinking to embarrass them with our sexy talk.

They laughed and poopoo’ed us but Aunt F took the cake. She turns to her SIL and says “What’s wrong with these fellas? They can’t find it through the hair?”

We fell out laughing. They won and they knew it. We’d been trumped.

When we were younger and under the firm control of our elders, we would occasionally feel ‘uncool’ or ‘not hip’ because we were not worldly. We could not do a lot of things the ‘cool’ kids could do, not and live to tell about it. But after awhile, as we got older, we just did not care anymore. We had super-busy lives and the ‘cool’ stuff no longer held allure and we were not captivated by the ‘forbidden’. We did not chase after the cool kids, we were the cool kids.

A few days ago Meow went on a tear and made this comment, “We don’t play publicly at parties or privately with other people.  We don’t use harsh implements.  We don’t post about our intimate sex life.  I don’t feel the desire to shave myself to look like a 10 year old. I don’t post pictures of naked women (or men).  I don’t have multiple doms or multiple sex partners.   I don’t publish erotic fiction.” And she said this as if it was a bad thing.

Then she explained her feelings this way, “Everything I read just made me feel so old and hopelessly behind the times.”

Hmmm, really? I know we all write what we want to write, whatever floats our boats but that doesn’t mean it isn’t unseemly, vulgar or crass. It just means in this wonderfully anonymous place we talk about it openly in all it’s vulgar crassness with big heaping scoops of bad judgment tossed in for tickles and grins.

Most of that stuff my Meow said she doesn’t do? Good thing, someone has to have standards, someone has to be a lady. I don’t do most of them either. Yes, I write erotica and I have a pretty interesting collection of pics, but the rest of it? For the most part, no. Moreover, I am not interested in learning how to do them.  Do I care that others do them? Not really.

I do care when people make clearly ill-advised decisions and people come along and encourage them to do foolish or dangerous things. Yes that annoys me. Ok, that more than annoys me, it totally pisses me off,  totally. Like watching someone standing in a burning building and some other idiot comes along and says ‘Hey, stay in there, it is a sign of submission. You’re being a good slave.’

I can’t think of how many times I have hit a link and ended up reading about an unplanned pregnancy with adults who are not married to each other. Or, they are married, but to other people. Condoms people, condoms. Or it seems like someone who has no real commitment from their partner is getting ready to make some major life-altering decision based on the word of this person they’ve met or have spent limited time with in the past. Let’s not get into body-modification. Or how about being punished by having your head shaved because ‘master’ said so. Or your life-partner spanks around or worse, sleeps around. Bad judgment, co-signed and endorsed by others with equally bad judgment. Dressing like a child? Are you serious? Do you really not understand that men who are attracted to children are attracted to children and there is danger, real danger in promoting that behavior. Their itch isn’t scratched by the obese woman in the school-girl outfit, nope. Spanking Tube is not filled with those old-men spanking those young girls for nothing.

Just a bunch of hot mess.  Not the cool kids, not hardly.

Not everyone is interested in all of those goings on. Lot’s of people are trying to figure out how to make the relationship they have better. Or, how to make better decisions the next time confronted with choices. Or to know that it is possible to develop trust, maintain passion, enjoy life,,,without all of the other such things getting chatted up in the blogosphere.

Jz recently spoke about her mom and it made me think of all the women in my life and what I admire about them. Their style, grace, dignity, self-control, discretion, intelligence, modesty, class.  Those are admirable characteristics. When I think about people like Meow and FD and Sara and Ronnie and Mouse and Sir J and Mick and on and on and on I think about how they are sharing their decision making processes as couples with the blogosphere. I think about how they discuss the hard times, the difficulties they have had to live and work through as couples. I think about how they are modeling traditional values in a non-traditional medium and I am glad they are willing to share.

Someone has to be an example for ‘doing the right thing’. And doing the right thing not as some mindless automaton accepting all sorts of degrading and demeaning behavior as a sign of submission. But as a free-thinking intelligent woman who has the love and respect of her husband. Living it out, teaching by example.

There is a scripture passage that talks about this phenomenon, it is found in Titus,,,

^“2 Teach the older men to exercise self-control, to be worthy of respect, and to live wisely. They must have sound faith and be filled with love and patience. ³ Similarly, teach the older women to live in a way that honors God. They must not slander others or be heavy drinkers.^[a] Instead, they should teach others what is good. ⁴ These older women must train the younger women to love their husbands and their children, ⁵ to live wisely and be pure, to work in their homes,^[b] to do good, and to be submissive to their husbands. Then they will not bring shame on the word of God. ⁶ In the same way, encourage the young men to live wisely.”

Wisdom is defined as:The ability to discern or judge what is true, right, or lasting; insight. It is also defined as common sense; good judgment

There would be some debate on this issue, primarily from people saying “Oh no, I am learning from all of you too!” But facts are facts and living something out, teaching by example is an incredibly valuable thing. I can see unfortunate sized bottoms, dressed in school girl outfits with pigtails anywhere. That is of no value to me and it is of questionable value to the world. I cannot listen to wives within DD or D/s relationships talk about the challenges of managing their own expectations, their emotions, their feelings and how all of this works itself out within a power-exchange coupling.

Some people fantasize about some very creative and erotic things.  Some people fantasize about making cake and laughing over coffee on the deck with their life partner, their spouse, their friend. Some people have no desire to share the most intimate parts of their thoughts, dreams and bodies with anyone but the one special person they can all their own.  Everyone has different desires and motivations. Just because it isn’t spicy, and erotic and overtly sexual does not make it any less desirable and fascinating and captivating.

The recent post I made about blogosphere romance included this clip.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cvHkCUaWXUI&feature=related

The second part of the romance post that I never posted were some observations about the interaction of the couple.

He is clearly a dominant man. While I am not convinced that she is a submissive woman, she seems to defers to him within their relationship which probably has the same effect. They are clearly affectionate with each other. Holding hands, touching each others faces, wrapping their arms around each other and of course, kissing, a lot.

Their expressions exhibit interest in each other, interest in what they are saying. Deep and abiding affection is in their gaze and finally they clearly enjoy each other. They are having fun. Laughter punctuates this clip and clearly their relationship. Watching the clip is as if watching their relationship grow from their youth until their silver years.

Amazingly, the Captain appears to hurt his back when they are on the deck, probably over doing it despite Maria cautioning him not too. How many hurt knees, arms, shoulders, backs and knees have so many couples worked through this year alone? Of course, it is wonderful that he recovers enough to dance with her, but a spanking is probably unlikely eh?

When I think of Meow/Lash, Sara/G, Omega/Mouse, Dev/Poppy, J/h, Mick/Lynda, et al., that earlier passage and this clip come to mind. In some cases there is similar longevity, others have new passion. There are the ties that bind; emotional, spiritual and physical. The surviving of life and arriving at this new place of discovery. The evolution of new relationships, watching butterflies escape from self-imposed cocoons under the watchful eyes of their partners. Never giving up, never giving in, staying together and making it work. Being willing to step out of old patterns, take risks and make things better.

The comfort of a warm embrace, day in and day, for years to come. Yes, your reality can be someone elses dearly held fantasy. Commitment. Monogamy. Maturity. Enduring passion. Wisdom.  It’s how all the cool kids are living.

Things Happen

What I wish I knew when I was much younger and pregnant,,,,

Life doesn’t stop, dreams don’t have to change, success is possible with support, love and self-determination.

We have a social safety net exactly for times like this. There are agencies and programs in place to help them move forward in their lives. They can and will work, continue in school and accept responsibility for the life they have created.

It is not Norman Rockwell, nor picture perfect. It is life in all of it’s messy reality.

Feeling bad and keeping a secret because of disapproval can lead to terribly sad choices. I am glad, despite the storm that it has caused they both have stood up and acknowledged what has/is happening as they try to figure this thing out.

Love them, support them, care for them, help them.

Girlfriends, Guardian Angels and Good Guys

We celebrated Love Our Lurkers Day this week (Thanks Bonnie!). A good time was had by all. New friends, new bloggers, renewed acquaintances.

While I was out and about flitting around I found an interesting couple in ttwd, Masterwolf and kat. Their blogs are interesting and their lives are chock-full because they are the proud new parents of a set of twins, welcomed home by their five siblings. As you would expect they are busy and somewhat sleep-deprived. Yet they still find time to blog. So be a good blogosphere, go by the happy hacienda, say hi, share some love, send some positive energy, congratulation and e-huggs for everybody. You will come away with the warm fuzzies that only real life brings.

http://masterwolf002.blogspot.com/

http://masterskat.blogspot.com/

********************************************************

Lately we’ve been discussing dating within ttwd and the realities of what that looks like in this day and age. I think I have startled a couple of my long-term married friends with Husband Mick making the following comment and a couple of days ago:

“My new friend, I’ve gotten old seeing some truly awful things, so I’ll go ahead and ask: Would you please continue to be choosy about whom you spend time with?

Sorry if I’m overstepping a boundary or sound like a nagging mom. my apologies.”

And then this one yesterday as we were discussing the whole disciplinarian/mentor thing:

“‘Classic bait and switch.’ Okay, so are guys like him deliberately trying to lure women by saying they’re interested in a longterm relationship, or are they assuming that everyone knows this is a game?”

No Mick. They don’t all know this is a game. Actually, there are women out there hoping to meet prince charming and when they meet these men they project all of their ideals about a ‘HOH’ on this character in hopes he will fill the bill. Lots of broken hearts in this lifestyle.

There are spanking sites that are completely dedicated to discipline and punishment spankings. It is it’s own little parallel universe where task-based couplings offer a poor imitation of the emotional intimacy shared by people in deeply committed relationships.

There are those who will argue that discipline and disciplinary relationships have changed their lives. Ok, I will take your word for it but I believe most women are actually seeking a committed relationship. There are a variety of stop gap measures used to earn a relationship with an identified spanker. Or, like any other sex activity — it is gratifying and that fills the bill.

My reality is that I really don’t look to the spanko, DD boards or forums to provide me with dating options. It is, in my opinion, for what I am seeking, a waste of time. When I get serious about dating again – I will be on vanilla boards.

All of this comes back to what do you, the woman, desire in a relationship. If you are seeking a long-term committed relationship you will want to restrain yourself from feeling compelled to prove your submission to a gentleman. He is the man, he should be exhibiting the character and attributes of a leader. If his entire focus is on you and your purported bad behavior – he is revealing a self-serving agenda. As a woman you become a caricature, ‘the disobedient willful woman’, requiring punishment to be kept in line. You are not you, a fully-formed individual to be known and loved.

On the CDD boards the battle of whether or not you should indulge in DD activities while dating is being debated at this very moment. Then again it is debated all the time. Most singles CDD boards have lax moderation that seems targeted more at keeping errant, out-spoken females in line than addressing the repeated complaints from these same women of being approached off-board for, based on their guidelines, inappropriate sexual contact. This is when they aren’t having raging battles over Biblical interpretation and which entire part of the Christian world is headed to hell. It gets tedious.

On every dating site there is the raging debate over whether or not a woman should ’submit’ to a man and engage in a range of DD and BDSM practices while dating. Women are encouraged to do this based solely on the idea that the man has identified himself as an HOH and claims the mantle of authority. Nothing else. Does he have a job? Who knows. Does he live with his Mother? No idea. Can he use silverware? These and other questions are not part of the consideration process. There is no consideration or weeding process. He has identified himself as an HOH – therefore you must behave in a manner that shows you are worth of him, (what? living in his pup-tent by the highway?).

Women within ttwd are encouraged to submit to spanking and other punishment activities during dating, most often, before they have even had a face to face meeting. This is a characteristic of all facets of ttwd. Every board or forum will have men of a certain ilk demanding women engage in all sorts degrading activities. The ‘Dom Master Nitwit Twit’ who approaches your very first conversation wanting to know about your spanking experiences, if you are shaved or unshaved, do you wear skirts or pants, how about stockings or hose kinky. As long as I have been on the CDD boards – not one of the ‘Christian’ gentleman has ever asked me about my salvation in the first conversation. I have however been asked if I stand in corners nude or ‘thank’ my HOH after punishment with a blow job. No Thanks.

I speak from screwed up experince. Avoid my stupid footsteps. I have actually purchased special clothes because my date requested it. That’s right, how stupid was I? Never again. I am a grown-woman and I know how to dress. If it isn’t in the closet or the drawer I won’t be wearing it. Girls, if there is something in particular he wants to see you wearing — after you meet for your first date, if he still feels that passionate about it, he can buy it for your second date.

I’ve actually gone through four guys this summer. I only mentioned two. Two weren’t worth mentioning on this blog. One lost his cell phone. Hmmm, he should have sent me an email before I read him the riot act. The other, Mr. V made the mistake of asking me for a favor, and then telling me it was part of a test that I was failing. Hmmm, ok, he wasn’t acing my tests either but I held my peace. Not completely cut-off but on a slippery slope. He called one night at midnight, seriously, midnight, to come by for a couple of hours. I didn’t have to worry about anything. He wouldn’t wake me when he left. Uh, no, I don’t need any company. Then he was cut off.

When I dump a guy – I don’t just dump him. I delete his phone number from every phone in the house, erase it from my cell, delete emails, wipe out profiles, cancel links to my blog, over done. You are officially dead to me. Why? I remove the option of feeling bad or lonely late one night and calling back just to ‘talk’. I force my self to walk away with style and in control. While I have received a couple of calls and stray texts – they are in the past and fading fast.

Mick a while back, I decided to decide. Was I going to continue to entertain gentlemen who did not have the attributes I was seeking in hopes I could come to terms with them? Or would I stop wasting my time in that arena, date casually if I felt like it but not get serious unless the gentleman behaved in a way that made me feel comfortable? Thats how we arrived where we are today. You aren’t my nagging Mom, someone else beat you to the punch but you are a part of my very protective village.

I could easily settle, sell myself out. Be subjugated, not submissive. Be victimized, not victorious. But I am not that person. The best thing that has happened? Even at my worst I did not accept every and any kind of behavior. Something inside me helped me to understand my value as a person and my worth. I am not some inter-changeable female to be placed in someone else’s fantasy. My friends, in real-life and on-line have encouraged me to understand to shoot for the moon and if I land with the stars that is ok.

I read the blogs I read and ignore the ones I ignore because honestly, while there are lots of different ways to do ttwd, my interests are narrow. They include things like monogamy, a husband, emotional connection, shared interests and enjoying life. I want the submissive place but I want to own the heart of the one who owns me. Honestly, I hope to discover some tidbit, some nugget that will help me be successful in my relationship in the future. Want to know about being monogamous and married? Talk to monogamous married people. Or at least people in committed relationships. Read and talk and read some more. Want to learn about the different types of dominant men in this world? Read their writings.

Humiliation play holds no mystery for me, public play, multiple-partners, edge-play. None of that means anything to me. As such it isn’t a sign of my inability to submit because I won’t agree to that treatment. It is a sign that my self-esteem is intact and I don’t have to accept it just to have a man. Men are like buses, stick around, another one is coming. Probably the one that best fits you.

My girlfriends, guardian angles and big brothers all encourage me to be patient and make a good decision. Think with my brain and not with my organs. I am not in a rush to sell myself out anymore. When I date now, I pay close attention to the guy. Watching his actions and his words, I listen to the small voice inside of me and take my time.

What I seek now are intangible qualities: masculinity, a protective nature, decisive, a leader, thoughtful and courteous, perhaps brave. These characteristics will only reveal themselves over time with any gentleman and I have all the time in the world.

Life Coach Comments and Responses

Hi There,

I should have highlighted the fact that this is a two year old conversation. I was sharing it so we could discuss some of the many types of spankos there are and one of the many types of spanking relationships there are available to try.

What I find most telling are the passionate responses this email generated. Often, after a girl has her heart broken, people ask why? How could she possibly believe him? Because it is presented in a way that uses the best pop psychology and ttwd relational dynamics has to offer. You too can have your spanking itch scratched, lose weight, stop smoking, stop swearing and become a paragon of feminine virtue over the right knee.

I’ve compiled the original comments and my responses here for your review. Please, more comments are certainly welcome and desired.

– CD, I’m about as far from a single woman as you can find, but I can’t help commenting. The question I kept asking is “What does he get out of the relationship?” He sounds like one heckuvaguy sacrificing his time and offering his expertise. Does he charge for his service or does he do this simply for the betterment of womankind? And please don’t tell me there’s no sexual component just because he says he doesn’t do the actual boinking. Maybe he’s what you want, but if he were selling you a used car, I’d want to kick the tires and check under the hood a little more.

Your humble skeptic,
Mick

@ Mick – Well, for spankos it is always sexual. I do not believe that any spanking relationship of any sort does not fulfill some sexual urge on some level for the participants. Be that a play situation, or one of these elaborate disciplinary situations and most certainly those between spouses. The components of control, authority, the exposure on the bottom if not the genitalia. He is a spanko and this situation fulfills his urges to dominate and discipline.

Yes, there are some who charge, men and women. Try Craig’s List for that as well as a couple of discipline oriented boards I can name.

– Here’s another possibility, not for singles ladies though.

http://lurvspanking.wordpress.com/2009/10/12/couples-spanking-therapy-part-1/

@ LS – Yep, that is definitely another way to do it. Everyone’s needs are met

– Oh wow. Sweety. Ok, not single and you already know my feelings…but:

1. Yes, this is a deeply emotional/psychological relationship he describes. He says so 3 times. What are his credentials? His training? Experience? Does he have references?

2. As Mick asked, what does he gets out of it? He does not engage in intercourse and won’t have you pleasure him but he might do so for you? Huh? In my world that is called sexual abuse, when a psychiatrist or life coach takes advantage of the client’s transference to engage in sexual relations. Google “transference” please.

3. He might check to see of you are aroused by your punishment? Say what? Who IS this man? Women can show “signs” of arousal from any stimulation to the area…that would include spanking the bottom. That does not mean she is experiencing pleasure. Why does he not know this? He wants to touch and feel. Period.

4. The ongoing disciplinary relationship would involve a great deal of emotional intimacy. Can you trust him to be there for you? How long? How often? Does he commit to a length of time? A number of sessions? Is this man reliable, have good common sense, live in a way that is compatible with your values? If you don’t know, then how can you allow him to make decisions for you about your life and what needs to happen? Now, if you want to do all that for yourself, and then have him be the spanker…ok.

Even what I just described is a step up from self spanking. However, I cannot imagine allowing it to be more than that, unless it really were more. Unless it was a real relationship.

@ Sara – Credentials? To be a free-range disciplinary spanker? A substantial amount of self-confidence and the ability to spin a good tale. That about covers it.

I have been across the lap of ‘disciplinarians’ who spent many hours regaling me of their spanking prowess. Uh, no. Simply put, everyone cannot spank, it is a learned skill. Requires observation, sensitivity and a certain amount of fearlessness. These faux disciplinarians don’t always have those abilities. I will give it to Disciplinarian M – the man could spank.

As I shared with Mick, the person who wrote this email would get a naked or mostly naked bottom under his hand. It fulfills some sexual urge on some level. Spankos do not always have to have intercourse to get the itch scratched. Spanking in and of itself is often the goal. Get that done, many if not most spankos are happy.

Yes, he wants to touch and feel. I can remember one guy telling me that he could ’see’ my arousal. Lol, you don’t say. The point was that it would increase my embarrassment because I would be ‘exposed’ to his view. I am obviously a bad girl because that was NOT embarrassing. Now, for some women, that is part of their mental process, the steps they take to reach the emotional plateau they are seeking through spanking. For those women, the idea of being ’seen’ increases the taboo, the emotional wallop of the event.

Now, being quite plain-spoken here, he has paddled a jiggly bottom. It is soft, pliable and warm to the touch. He should be able to visibly see his handiwork. Now he checks to determine if the woman is aroused. The vast majority of women will be well lubricated. Their labia will be engorged and highly sensitive to touch. His hand is probably also sensitive due to the recent paddling. All kinds of emotional/erotic fireworks going off here for both parties.

For some people, especially if the man is driven by the discipline kink, this relationship can go on for a while. But, it will not have the emotional intimacy you expect. It is task-driven not behavior driven. In order for the parties to get what they desire there will always be some failure to perform.

What happens, how these relationships become harmful or better yet, hurtful, is when as he notes – one partner, normally the spankee develops an emotional connection. If you can see and accept this as shallow play, you get it.

– Another non-single person, but I was single not so long ago.

Quick question–is he offering to fulfill the role, or merely giving his opinion on how a relationship like this works? Why, after years did he decide to finally respond? Also, if he is offering to fulfill the role how does he reconcile his belated response with his assertion that a relationship like this requires mutual trust? Do you have reason to trust him?

You asked some specific questions, which I’m going to address:

What do you think about this premise and this type of relationship?
I think the bigger question is what do you think about this type of relationship? Is this the description of the relationship that you’re really looking for? If you were to sit down and write out a relationship manifesto– would this be it?

Any thoughts on his conclusions? I think there are some red flags– but I don’t fully know the context. Was he was responding directly to specific questions of yours or offering some of these details on his own? Also, Mick and Sara covered several thought-provoking points. I think it’s dangerous that he left the door open for a deeper relationship– saying that it is possible but not certain. There’s a lack of clarity in his purpose.

Do you think this is simply about scratching your itch or does it really serve a purpose? I honestly don’t know. This is so deeply personal. I must say though, I’ve read your blog and you have much to offer. I value what you have to say and your life experiences. I get the impression that you are an able, capable woman. So, I would just turn the question and ask– what would that purpose be?

Would you do it if offered? Would you pursue this type of relationship? Personally, I’m an incredibly private person. Putting my trust in someone who is not tied to me in some deeper way would be virtually impossible. I’d be a wreck. For the way I am– there would be far too much likelihood that I’d end up more hurt in the end. That being said, I can see the appeal and I certainly would never say that it couldn’t work for anybody.

Would you do it until something else came along? If you pour your emotions and self into this person, do you think you’ll be more whole or more ready for the real thing when it comes along? “They can be, ultimately, detrimental or supremely rewarding. Either way it WILL have an effect, one way or another, on a person.” What is the likelihood that this would end up to be a supremely rewarding experience for you in the end?

I read your post earlier and it’s actually stuck with me as rather thought provoking for the past few hours. I hope this is helpful.

Best,

JMD

@ JMD – Hi There! I think this is your first comment, welcome.

No, no, no – I have gotten some questions off-board about different approaches to spanking. Single girls are getting all sorts of wild proposals. Every thing from play to real discipline. Trust me, this is tame. I thought it would be interesting to re-visit my past to share from my own experiences and solicit feedback from readers. You guys have blown me away with your responses. Thank you for the time you took with this. I believe you have helped someone, somewhere really consider what is being offered them and hopefully equipped them to make a good decision.

I have LOTS of email proposals and propositions. At the time this was suggested I was considering this idea but it did not work out. I am not really seeking anything right now, I want to clear my plate of some existing issues — but when I do resume dating, I don’t think this would be appealing, no.

Lack of clarity, there you have it. What happens to many women is that we enter these arrangements – thinking we can perhaps earn his love or affection. Unfortunately, it doesn’t work that way. But the open door is often an irresistible temptation for a person who craves the intimacy a committed spanking relationship offers. Many men, not necessarily the writer of this email, but many men in the power-exchange universe know this and take advantage of that inherent weakness in the ‘disciplinarian’ relationship.

I don’t have any emotional space left for pseudo-disciplinary relationships. If one was presented – I must admit that I would approach it from the same place as the spanker, scratch my itch over mindless tasks — but establish a true emotional connection? I am not available for that at this time. That is the part of these pseudo-couplings that is the deal-breaker. If a person is playing a game, fine, admit it and we can both play. I find I am very resentful of those who engage a woman’s emotions under false pretenses.

How do I know I am really sick? I have no desire for anything right now. Nothing, nada, I don’t even want to have a conversation. I want to be left the heck alone truth be told. When not under the weather I am not adverse to some no-strings attached slap and tickle. But I enter the game with emotions safely tucked away. In this case, the problem is that women, particularly novices enter this type of relationship expecting monumental change and I am not sure that is possible at this level.

– Well, you’ve presented his answers without really telling us much about what you’re looking for. So, it’s hard to know for sure. But-I think the points raised by the previous commenters are all good.

I also question the true benefit of a long-distance coach. Long-distance and impersonal would be too difficult for me, especially if I were without a dom close enough to touch and feel. Maybe as a supplement but if it were the only relationship I was in? There would be a very real danger of me falling into a fantasy and missing out on real life.

I don’t think I would go for it. Just one woman’s opinion…Jz

@ Jz – Absolutely, there can be long-distance relationships that are quite rewarding but as you noted, in this case it is far to easy to fall into fantasy. In all honesty, at this point I would be surprised if I ultimately end up with a man pre-disposed to ttwd period. I fully expect to meet and ultimately corrupt a vanilla man. I  am not sure, or rather, I find it less and less likely I will meet someone within ttwd who doesn’t have a full  menu of demands and desires for me to fill. Unfortunately these gentlemen forget the requirements of real relationships in pursuit of erotic fulfillment. I may be being negative but that is what I think.

Now, if I wanted a no-holds-barred, whip and chain filled throw down, I’d pick one of those guys who sent me a cock-shot. The challenge is found in pretending to submit. Yep, I said it, pretending. Kinda like orgasm-denial and cumming on demand. Not real but looks like it. For many, their kink requires them to dominate and control. They need that mental stimulation to be fulfilled. Where many submissive women drop the ball and set themselves up to be hurt is in believing that Mr Sir Dom is serious when he puts them through their paces. All too often it is a game. The pre-emptive requests to ‘prove’ your submission are, as JMD, notes an open door to possibilities with no real commitment.

– Another non-single girl, but Sara lays it out very well. With all the potential for things to go a very wrong direction, do arrangements like this really work out well sometimes? Greengirl

@ Greengirl – After this post I am sure we will receive comments of those who will say yes. I think, as I noted, as long as no emotions are involved and it is limited to task-oriented interactions, sure, maybe. There are dating boards dedicated to ‘discipline and disciplinary’ relationships that do not include sex. What gets me in trouble with the keepers of the gates is my unwillingness to say spanking and punishment driven behavior is not sexually motivated or that it doesn’t fulfill some deep sexual urge.

The human sex drive is a complicated thing. On one hand there is the deep need to be spanked or punished. On the other, the need to dominate and control at all costs. Add in the desire to find someone you can entrust with your weaknesses and failings and you have all the ingredients for people to be hurt, taken advantage of or emotionally injured.

These relationships can be called successful if you are seeking serial spanking encounters.

Thank you all for your truly heart-felt responses.